Helpfull links

So, I notice you 'updated' Pak Een's level maps to remove all the level borders and enemies. This is... very odd. Why would you do that?
-- Levellass (talk) 07:47, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

... to show the interested user what to expect loading this mod. also added creatures and other visible stuff. but of course, if you do prefer to showcase the current state of development I'm delighted to redo everything.

But in general it might be an interesting idea to also add a "behind the scenes" section where to show construction details, the "breadboard stage" and stuff like this... what do you think?

-- Nisaba (talk) 08:05, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I've always liked to sue the level borders in my maps, I feel they're a vital part of how levels are put together. That aside, wouldn't it be better to do some maps of mods that don't have any uploaded yet? There's a lot of them. I tried to do some but ran out of time.

-- Levellass (talk) 11:23, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Fair point. But do you prefer an Abiathar look, meaning with non of those creature-sprites implemented? or a combination of borders + sprites?

I'm sure you've noticed that I'm about to upload all those missing level map, sprite and item images?! but having some trouble using the GalaxyView's .ini with mods like Keen 10: Mirror Menace, Intelligent Intellect or Keen Valo, it might take some time to finish this project.

-- Nisaba (talk) 11:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I've always preferred TED5's Infoplane sprites since these are more informative to me than just sprite images; some plane values have no images (The [B] blocks say.) and the difficulty numbers add further. To me the TED5 look is how Keen levels were meant to be viewed outside the game. If you're planning a full upload of stuff good luck to you, and remember the 'pages with broken file links' category.

-- Levellass (talk)

Again, looking at the technical approach of your projects (e.g. Kube or Pak Een) it does make sense to show the technical aspects in those images as well. But I do strongly opine not to make this a general rule. In fact overlooking all those yet uploaded levelmaps, I get the impression that most uploads (>90%) stay with a visual and not so much with a development style. And this does make sense to me, cause people with the ambition of digging into mods for further details do self-evidently take the long way of extracting everything and getting on this way in touch with the real/actual layout, design, planning, patching, manipulating and modding stages. And this in a much more satisfying way than the wiki could just provide, because concerning all this the wiki is only a first overview, isn't it?!

Talking about uploading stuff; I know this is an ambitious goal but I guess this is the way I can contribute to the community the most. 500-odd images alone uploaded since registered an wiki account should indicate the seriousness of this project...

-- Nisaba

Indeed, this is why I uploaded my mod's level images myself, as an exception to the usual pattern. (You'll notice most of my other work has focused on Vorticon mods which are displayed using the relevant sprites, as are most Galaxy mod images.) This, and especially the more technical mod I have in the works now work better, IMKO, 'technically' rather than 'aesthetically'.

Your uploading effort is a welcome one, I myself constructed nearly all of the patch pages on this wiki for a similar reason.

-- Levellass (talk) 09:10, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Maps just got reverted. Case closed.

-- Nisaba (talk) 10:09, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

PCKF URL redirects

Hey I just noticed you changed the URL for the PCKF but https://pckf.com just redirects in an endless loop for me, and ends up on Andy Durdin's server saying the forum will be down for a few hours, but it's been saying this for a day now. Is that correct?
-- Malvineous (talk) 22:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Hey, the pckf.com domain situation changed. Apparently VitaminZach did at some point along the line get the name servers updated. this means that Fleexy now controls the display of pckf.com. He 302/301 all pckf.rigeltechnical.com URLs to pckf.com.

As things are going well on my end, I'd suggest to maybe try flushing your DNS cache?

-- Nisaba (talk) 06:41, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Upon investigation, it looks like the domain might be misconfigured, two of the nameservers are returning the wrong IPs:

$ whois pckf.com
   Domain Name: PCKF.COM
   ...
   Name Server: DNS1.NAMECHEAPHOSTING.COM
   Name Server: DNS2.NAMECHEAPHOSTING.COM
   Name Server: NS1.AFRAID.ORG
   Name Server: NS2.AFRAID.ORG

$ dig +nocmd +noall +answer @dns1.namecheaphosting.com pckf.com
pckf.com.               1200    IN      A       198.54.115.242
$ dig +nocmd +noall +answer @dns2.namecheaphosting.com pckf.com
pckf.com.               1200    IN      A       198.54.115.242
$ dig +nocmd +noall +answer @ns1.afraid.org pckf.com
pckf.com.               3600    IN      A       67.23.1.86
$ dig +nocmd +noall +answer @ns2.afraid.org pckf.com
pckf.com.               3600    IN      A       67.23.1.86

I'm getting the 67.x.x.x IP which endlessly 301 redirects. Shame the rigeltechnical.com URL was forwarded already, because it means there's no backup method for accessing the forum in case anything like this happens to one of the domains!

-- Malvineous (talk) 07:11, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

mmhhh... thanks for the info. I mirrored our conversation over here pckf.com Welcome to the migrated PCKF! and informed Fleexy about all that. I'll get back to you as soon as I have news for you.

EDIT: I'm quoting Fleexy with some updated news:

Ah, it looks like the two old nameservers are still there, so sometimes clients will ask the old (wrong) ones, and sometimes they'll ask the new ones, which will give the correct answer. Fortunately, we're still in the 302 phase, so I just disabled the redirect for now and will contact VitaminZach to get the DNS fully ironed out. The PCKF is once again accessible at pckf.rigeltechnical.com; pckf.com might also work if you're lucky.[1]

-- Nisaba (talk) 09:04, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks for your help! With the redirect off I can get to the PCKF again :)

-- Malvineous (talk) 21:57, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Mods vs. Guidelines

Deleted mods

Stop deleting mod pages! A lots of Keen 2,3,5,6 mods have the EXE in the zip file, but that doesn't mean you must remove them!
-- Szemigi (talk) 13:36, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, but I'm not quite sure what you are talking about?

-- Nisaba (talk) 14:17, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

I can't see My Mortimer McMire skin for Keen 5 and 6. Where are they? I completely saw you did it in 2017. Or was it against the rules here?

http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Mortimer_McMire_-_The_Armageddon_Machine

http://www.shikadi.net/keenwiki/Mortimer_McMire_-_Aliens_Ate_My_Babysitter

-- Szemigi (talk) 14:21, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

I'd kindly ask you to please read the KeenWiki:Guidelines. Both mods you refer to are skin mods and therefore against the guidelines.

-- Nisaba (talk) 14:36, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Incomplete mods and skin mods

Hi Nisaba. I noticed that you deleted Quirky Moron's Keen 4 Levelpack and Fire Station in 2017, they are also commented out in the Galaxy Mods page. I tested them, the former one is a simple level, but it can be finished and I've seen other simple levels (including Keen 1 BwB Level, probably the most minimalist level pack). Fire Station, on the other hand, can't be finished, but I think the download link should still be included in the page as it is one of the earliest Keen 5 level packs.

Was there a consensus regarding skin mods during my absence? I talked with Malvineous in 2015 and created an (incomplete) list of skin mods, but he wasn't so keen on them. The Vorticon Mods page still has a skin mods section, including mods that only change the Keen sprite. Galaxy Mods also has a much shorter one, but Szemigi's Mortimer mods were commented out and their pages were blanked. Other skin mod pages such as Cybernetic Dreams and DasBrot's First Mod still exist, though.

In any case, I think the deleted and blanked mods should at least be included in the Vorticons and Galaxy Mods pages. The titles of mods without an article could be made into redirects to the respective skin/incomplete mods section. What do you think?
-- Grandy02 (talk) 17:20, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Hey Grandy02, thanks for your message.

In agreement with Malvineous a couple of uploads got sorted out. Due to the wiki KeenWiki:Guidelines we came to the agreement that mods must be substantial. If only one sprite, or one level got modded, then the mod should not be included here. Exceptions can be made for unique mods.

So, looking at Quriky Moron's pack the only playable level seems to be more like a ruff sketch and not at all near beta status. On the other hand you can find an updated version of this level in Buried in Oblivion and a bundle of unfinished mods at the end of this very page as well.

Speaking of skin mods, the same applies here as well. The idea is to avoid having many mods listed with just one sprite changed that are very similar to the original games. I hope this answers your question.

Concerning Vorticon mods: I haven't had the chance to examine and investigate the whole list. What I did is sorting them into categories and updating a bunch of information there. But there is still lots of work todo.

-- Nisaba (talk) 09:38, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your response. I'll come back to this at a later point. I agree that most of them should not have individual pages, but I still think it would be okay if the download links were retained in some form.

-- Grandy02 (talk) 19:44, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

In-development mods

Hi Nisaba, an explanation on my interest in adding in-development mods. Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly fine with waiting for the release of the full version (or the abandonment of a mod with substantial amount of content). My "fear" is that a mod is abandoned without an "official" announcement or that the creator even becomes inactive, and in the meantime, the download links died. That's very unlikely in the case of Dr. Colossus's mod, but it has happened before. Would it be okay to "preventively" upload the alphas/betas of notable mods to files.shikadi.net? In any way, we would use the ZIP files sooner or later.
-- Grandy02 (talk) 13:23, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Good point. I'm in contact with most modders (partly because I collaborate in one way or another). Meaning that I'm quite well informed about the current status of their mods. Besides I took precautions against data loss. I do keep copies and have already uploaded a couple of them to the wiki. So they are hosted but not yet activated.

-- Nisaba (talk) 14:27, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Ah, that's good to know.

-- Grandy02 (talk) 12:36, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Improvement mods

Hi Nisaba, Szemi has suggested a section for improvement mods (he added one several months ago on the Galaxy Mods page, but it is commented out now). It would include mods with bugfixes, tweaks, new stuff, etc., such as Keen 4 Ultimate and Keen 5 Deluxe. Keen 6 Version 1.6 also exists, there are no new levels, but could it be mentioned? Is your Keen 5 Deluxe not included because version 1.0 is still in development? In case of Vorticons, there are the Keen 1 and 2 Gold Editions. Maybe there could be a category for those mods instead of a subsection.

By the way, could take a look at Talk:Translations, please?
-- Grandy02 (talk) 19:02, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Hey Grandy02,

Thanks for your message. That's a really difficult question. There are a couple of reasons, why we shouldn't build a section for so called "improved" mods. First of all they infringe upon the KeenWiki:Guidelines because they lack in terms of substantial changes. Remember, the idea of this wiki is to avoid having many mods listed that are very similar to the original games. And "improved" mods are more or less a copy of the original games.

Of course one could argue that they follow an unique idea. But at the same time we would need a guideline to define what a "improved" mod should and should not consist of. Looking at Szemi's latest creation, it rather looks like an add-on than a pure bug fixed version. Same goes for K5 Deluxe and so on. Mod's like these feature an extra level or two which aren't seen in the original games. So they are no longer just a furbished version of the genuine games. That's also the reason why Szemi's mod is listed under Level-Packs, which seems to be the most suitable category.

Next to that some of their titles are a bit over the top. To name a mod "something something ultimate" sounds quite a bit euphemistic, as if these mods got authorized by original game developers, which is obviously not the case.

As a counterpart there is Ceilicks Keen Dreams Plus. It is a well chosen name which tells exactly what one could anticipate: it's the original Keen Dreams games plus a little extra. Just like this very mod we should keep things unagitated and handle "improved" mods just like levelpacks.

-- Nisaba (talk) 10:12, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your answer. Okay. Could Keen 5 Deluxe also be added to Level Packs? Or not before the release of version 1.0?

-- Grandy02 (talk) 19:00, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

K5D wasn't officially released and is by far not in a stable status. So a quick answer is no. K5D was also just the WIP title. Later on it might get named Keen 5 Plus.

-- Nisaba (talk) 19:12, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

All right.

-- Grandy02 (talk) 19:17, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Reasoning for naming a mod "ultimate"

Hey, Nisaba. To let you know, the reason why I call my mod "ultimate" is that since the original Keen 4 game has versions (v1.0,v1.2,v1.4), that's why I gave my mod name "Ultimate Commander Keen 4" a.k.a Commander Keen 4 Ultimate Edition. There is no v1.5 or anything else. It's the ultimate edition. It's because there are a lots of bugfix, I used the entire tileset graphics (very less space left in them, really!). As for the authorize thing, I created a demo video of Ultimate Keen 4, where I exactly showed something from the help menu. So if you checked my video, it's evident for everybody it's just an improvement (enhanced fanmade unofficial update). And also an expansion pack (+5 levels). So it's like a Keen 4 mod-levelpack hybrid, since (and you said it finally) it's a levelpack actually as cathegory (yeah, it was planned to be a levelpack, but if I did bugfixing and a lots of other stuff, it's the ULTIMATE thing I did to the original game as a Keen 4 mod-levelpack), but there are a lots of new graphics as well.

The next reason why I call my mod ultimate is that there are also a lots of unused feature like the weed house graphic, the unused musics, the Desert Town level entry graphic, the Dort (which is a passive tile-based creature for not having space to patch it to keep the original scheme of this ultimate game-mod-levelpack). These have been happened in my Ultimate Keen 4. Not to forget about my new graphics either! And I did Ultimate Keen 4 for completely free of course.
-- Szemigi (talk) 10:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Co-op mod invitation

By the way, are you interested in contributing something to a Keen 4 Patchwork Mod? Nobody has replied so far (the story is just a suggestion, it could always be changed at a later point).
-- Grandy02 (talk) 13:23, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

As I'm involved in a couple of bigger projects including my own mod Foray in the Forest I can't promise anything at all at the moment.

But I do have a very neat idea for this mod I'd like to share with the community soon. In summery: wouldn't it be nice to create a hand drawn mod like seen over here?! Drawing a quick sketches won't take too long and isn't too much of a complex task, so people might join with less reservation. And I think everybody already drew something Keen related in their younger days. The result could be a very unique community mod with a personal touch of each member involved. What do you think about it?

-- Nisaba (talk) 14:27, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

I understand, modders who are busy with their own works wouldn't be able to participate in yet another large-scale project (at least it would require much more effort than the InsaLevs collabs, for example). These times are different from the days of the Levellordian Patchwork Mods when most mods (nearly all of them Vorticon ones) were finished within less than a year, I should have paid more attention to this fact.

I'm excited about your idea, it's a very nice one, it would be a great mod for sure. Exploring levels looking like those 2012 contest entries sounds like a lot of fun. :-)

-- Grandy02 (talk) 15:32, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Are you still interested in the mod based on hand-drawn levels? Or are you simply too busy now?

-- Grandy02 (talk) 11:17, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Of cause I am interested. If you could, please send me a pm over here to discuss non wiki related topics like this.

-- Nisaba (talk) 11:35, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Deleting double account

Hi, Nisaba When Malvineous created my account he requested me if the DarkAle and the Alessandro account were both mine and I telled him the Alessandro account was not mine because I forgot that it was my old request. Please can you delete it. I know you are an administrator and I think only the administrators can delete pages
-- DarkAle (talk) 17:32, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Can you reassure that both names "DarkAle" as well as "Alessandro" are nicknames of yours? Without an affirmation I can't delete accounts just out of the blue. Especially not if you negated the connection of both accounts in the first place.

So, to make sure both accounts are assigned to you please click my user name, scroll all the way down, and on the bottom left under "Tools" select the option "Email this user", and eventually send me an email. Do this step with both of your accounts please, so I can make sure that they both are related to you. To follow this guide you do have to login with both of your accounts, one at the time, of course.

-- Nisaba (talk) 18:25, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Received both of your confirmation emails and deleted your secondary and now redundant account as requested. Case closed.

-- Nisaba (talk) 20:26, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Some notes on Foray in the Forest

Hi Nisaba, there's a couple things I want to point out about Foray in the Forest on KeenWiki:

Right usage of ammo values

The ammo values in the level images aren't used right. Individual ammo items (Ammo) is intended for items that only give one unit of ammo (e.g. Flower Power), while Ammo packs (AmmoPacks) are meant for items that give multiple units of ammo each (e.g. Neural Stunners). This is especially evident when you go to a mod's page, look at the levels, and hold the mouse cursor over the ammo numbers (it should give you a message), at least on desktop. In regards to the ammo dispensers, maybe that could be a new variable in LevelImage (e.g. AmmoDispensers)? That way, if any future mod uses them, we can just enter those values into the unique variable.
-- Quinton (talk) 18:21, 14 March 2024 (GMT)

A new variable for the ammo values in the level images sounds ideal. If you could take care of this I'd be very grateful.

-- Nisaba (talk) 00:14, 15 March 2024 (GMT)

I just got the AmmoDispensers variable set up! Take a look at the Foray in the Forest page and the individual level files, and tell me what you think.

From what I can tell, it looks you are using Ammo (now converted to AmmoPacks) to count how much ammo the ammo dispensers give, correct? Is their ammo supply actually limited? I thought they were unlimited. Like, I'm pretty sure I filled up multiple times within the BwB. If it's limited, then maybe the supply value could be moved to Ammo (AmmoPacks would be for amount of Neural Stunners that can be picked up)? Or would it just make things over-complicated?

-- Quinton (talk) 05:43, 15 March 2024 (GMT)

I'll list the options for collecting ammunition in the hope that this information might clarify things.

1x Neural Stunner = 5x extra shots (on normal & hard mode)
1x Neural Stunner = 8x extra shots (on easy mode)
1x Dispenser = 1x or more extra shots (the quantity of shots can be freely configured for each individual dispenser regardless of the difficulty level)

-- Nisaba (talk) 10:12, 15 March 2024 (GMT)

Issues with the mod actors list

In regards to why the mod actors list is acting up, please see the discussion in Template:ModActorImage.
-- Quinton (talk) 18:21, 14 March 2024 (GMT)

Regarding the Template:ModActorImage I'm still a bit baffled. As I understand it the template only takes replacement actors into consideration. However, close to all creatures in this source mod are made from scratch. But suspect I don't really understand where the source of the error lies.

-- Nisaba (talk) 00:14, 15 March 2024 (GMT)

In regards to Template:ModActorImage, here's the story: Malvineous made it so that when the Name field is left blank, it instead uses "Unnamed actor". This created a problem, however, where actors with no name don't appear in the list since it sorts by name. Malvineous then changed the list template to make it order by replacement. It seemed fine, until you look at pages that have actors who don't replace anyone. In other words, whatever variable is used for sorting needs to be filled in all files in order for them to appear in the list.

-- Quinton (talk) 05:43, 15 March 2024 (GMT)

Thanks for the explanation. I think I now understand the problem much better. Perhaps it is technically feasible to add a field that can be used to determine on a case-by-case basis which criterion should be used for sorting. Or alternatively, a second template could be created, like

Template:ModActorImageReplacement
Template:ModActorImageName

-- Nisaba (talk) 09:41, 15 March 2024 (GMT)

User talk:Nisaba

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