User talk:Malvineous

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Been whined at by Lemm and assorted people, apparently the term 'sprite' applies to graphics only and the terms I should have been using for all the 'sprite' patch stuff is 'actor'; is there any way to systematically change the term 'sprite' in patch page titles (and maybe text) to 'actor'? If not, leave it, but if so, it might be something to think about. --Levellass 02:41, 17 July 2011 (GMT)

It is possible to do a bulk search and replace across pages, but the pages themselves will need to be renamed manually. User:DHeadshot has access to do this, perhaps you can ask him? If he renames pages when logged in as a bot, it's possible to avoid creating those redirect pages too. -- Malvineous 03:00, 17 July 2011 (GMT)

More talk...

The older conversations on this page have been archived to keep the content current. To read the previous content on this page, please see:

Needs pictures error

This page Keen 1 640x480 Redux has itself listed under 'needs pictures' despite having pictures. This appears to be because the pictures on the page are resized. Is there any way aside from using fullsized pictures (Which ruins the page) to fix this? -Levellass (talk) 02:21, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out! I don't want to automatically resize all images in the infobox, because that makes it too easy to upload 640x400 images by accident as screenshots. So as a compromise I added an ImageScale option to the infobox, which will scale the image and takes care of the 'Needs pictures' category. Hopefully people won't abuse this and upload 320x200 screenshots scaled up to 640x400! -- Malvineous (talk) 03:39, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

Deletion for stupid redirect

The page is obviously misspelled and needs to be deleted. The correct redirect link has already been created so nothing of value will be lost. -Levellass (talk) 07:55, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

You're an admin so you should have no trouble deleting the page! The delete link might be hidden under the 'More' drop down, next to the Read/Edit/History tabs at the top of the page. Let me know if you can't find it or it doesn't work for some reason. -- Malvineous (talk) 08:12, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Jeez, have I been such an butt in the past?

Hey Malv. I've not been on in ages, and I was looking at some of my past edits. I have just realized I was acting a total ass, and you should have banned me for what I did. Your patience (and Shadow Master's) with me, legendary as it is, was stretched to the limit, and I'm sorry for what I did to this wiki, with that fiasco wih KeenRush, and me smarting off to you over the preview button and all. I was going through a rather hard period im my life then, and it shows--looking at the comments and such, it looks as if they were written by someone else. Again, I'd like to apologize for any discord I've caused this place. -Xterra1 17:02, 19 November 2011 (GMT)

Hey Xt - no worries, I figured it was something you would grow out of eventually ;-) -- Malvineous 23:50, 19 November 2011 (GMT)
And I was looking at the Viva talkpage yesterday. "Xterra-ism". :-) At least I've gotten SOMETHING besides a Nissan SUV named after me. Again, I must compliment you on your patience with me. -Xterra1 18:07, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

Abandoned mods / level packs

Hello Malvineous. As I mentioned on Talk:Vorticon Mods, I still have a few abandoned mods/level packs by different people that are not available for download anymore (at least according to the wiki). Various mods and packs have been directly uploaded to, thus I sent one mod to Tulip who contributed a lot to the Vorticons Mods page. He replied two weeks ago, but since then no download has been added for "Mars Kingdoms", so I assume he is just too busy for editing. As you run this wiki, I wonder if I can also send them to you? --Grandy02 09:48, 20 November 2011 (GMT)

Sure, just e-mail them to and I will upload them to if you'd be willing to add the necessary links to the article pages! -- Malvineous 10:27, 20 November 2011 (GMT)
Great, I'll send them this day! :-) --Grandy02 11:46, 20 November 2011 (GMT)
Sent. The names of the zip files are those of the original downloads (if I remember correctly), rename them as you please. The mail includes demos of Redemption, Lord of the Rings (two demos), and Mars Kingdoms. There is also a beta of Bp's "mod" Marooned on Mars Forever, but I think it seems more like a level pack (no changed graphics, no patches and only minimal edits of the story text). What do you think? --Grandy02 16:01, 20 November 2011 (GMT)
Not really sure, whatever you think is best would be fine. And thanks, I've put them into so you can link to them directly there. -- Malvineous 22:24, 20 November 2011 (GMT)
Thanks a lot! I added Bp's work to level packs, as I think that changed titles in the story text do not really make it a mod. Anyway, I noticed that the various download links for are not working anymore. I haven't been able to access the site for quite a while. Do you know anything? Does the site even exist anymore? --Grandy02 14:09, 21 November 2011 (GMT)
I haven't heard anything but as of a year ago it seemed to be online only for "nostalgic reasons" so I guess it's finally offline now. You could try contacting Xtraverse ( and see if he still has a copy of the site... -- Malvineous 00:17, 22 November 2011 (GMT)
Okay, I sent him a mail. I wonder, if he doesn't want to put the site online anymore, would it be possible to archive the site at just like CC314? --Grandy02 17:35, 23 November 2011 (GMT)
Certainly I'm happy to do that, if Xtra is willing to send the files across or upload them to my server. -- Malvineous 22:56, 23 November 2011 (GMT)
Yeah, it would be great to keep that fine piece of Keen community history. By the way, the hotmail account seems to be inactive (I got "mailbox unavailable" as a response), so now I'm hoping that he'll answer the mail I sent to his address... --Grandy02 14:41, 24 November 2011 (GMT)
Hi again. I sent you another abandoned mod, "Trouble on Xion 2" (Keen 4 this time). On a side note, the zip file for Trapped Keen includes the KEEN3.EXE, which should probably be removed. Also, no answer from Xtraverse yet. --Grandy02 11:22, 26 November 2011 (GMT)
Thanks, uploaded. Thanks also for pointing out keen3.exe, I have removed it from the zip. -- Malvineous 01:50, 27 November 2011 (GMT)
Darn, I guess I should have been more vigilant in copying the levels and mods over to the keenwiki server... -- Flaose 04:01, 30 November 2011 (GMT)
Meh, you couldn't get the official Keen3 game out of it anyway thanks to the modifications, so it's more a courtesy to id than anything else :-) -- Malvineous 11:18, 30 November 2011 (GMT)

PCKF Archive

Thanks again! On a side note, could you delete Norp3 title.png, please? But now something completely different: Maybe you have noticed that the old PCKF (its ezBoard incarnation) is not available in the Wayback Archive anymore since the Archive's new version was introduced. Due to the attack on ezBoard back in 2005, this means that basically all pre-2005 topics of the PCKF are lost now. I have basically not followed the community this year, do you know if there have been any reactions on this incident? The thing is, I saved a bunch of topics before the old Archive was taken down, and I'd like to send them over to someone who wants to turn that mess into something more comfortable on the web. But maybe I'm just late to the party and there already have been efforts to save the old PCKF. Has anything been said? --Grandy02 15:55, 27 November 2011 (GMT)

Done. And I'm not sure about the PCKF - after all those old topics were lost it seemed a bit hit and miss to save it. Plus it was all in HTML so it's difficult to convert - there was some discussion about importing all the topics into the current PCKF. I've also spent hardly any time at the PCKF for a long while, so I'm not sure what the mood is. I think many people who had topics then are no longer active, it seems to be quite a different group of people there now! -- Malvineous 07:16, 28 November 2011 (GMT)
Okay, I see. I might create a topic on this issue in the PCKF this week (after a quick look, there still are quite a few of the "old ones", though). But if nobody has archived anything, would you mind to host certain topics I saved (of course, not every "W00t! 3000 Posts!!!111!1!" thing)? I might select interesting topics bit by bit - but first I have to know if that is even possible. --Grandy02 17:01, 28 November 2011 (GMT)
Sure, but in that case it'll be easier to give you some webspace so you can manage it all yourself, if you're prepared to do so! -- Malvineous 23:21, 28 November 2011 (GMT)
Thanks for your offer! I'll create a topic in the PCKF first this weekend and see what others did (if anything), then I'll get back to you. --Grandy02 14:27, 29 November 2011 (GMT)

I had talked with tulip per mail the last few days. According to him, there was nothing on the forum about archiving the ezBoard, and as he is one of the most active members, that has to be the truth. I created a thread nonetheless, but I don't expect much. So I'd greatly appreciate if you really gave me some webspace. :-) --Grandy02 18:27, 6 December 2011 (GMT)

Hello. I neither have mail nor FTP access right now, so could you write your answer on my last mail at this place (in case you already responded)? Also, could you do me a really big favour and make a little edit to the index.htm of the PCKF Archive? Actually, I finally wanted to post, but today I noticed that the page is incorretly displayed in certain browsers due to a little error on my side. Please change

<span class="logotext">PCKF Archive</a>


<span class="logotext">PCKF Archive</span>

and it should be fixed. Thanks in advance! :-) --Grandy02 20:05, 22 January 2012 (GMT)

Done. There was a suspected intrusion on my web host, so my provider reset everyone's passwords as a precaution. Your new password is in your e-mail. -- Malvineous 22:39, 22 January 2012 (GMT)
Thank you! :-D --Grandy02 21:06, 29 January 2012 (GMT)

DOS Classics is back!

Good news: Xtraverse replied and put DOS Classics back online! Oh, and by the way, he already created a little PCKF archive of sorts in the past - well, those topics can be quite... entertaining. ;-) --Grandy02 17:37, 30 November 2011 (GMT)

Great news, good to have the site back. -- Malvineous 22:43, 30 November 2011 (GMT)
In a second message, he thanks you for your offer to host DOS Classics, but he intends to keep up the site for "the long haul." DOS Classics was just offline due to a DNS error he forgot to fix. Anyway, yeah, it's great to have it back, I learned lots of Keen stuff at that place, and it got me into modding. --Grandy02 20:06, 1 December 2011 (GMT)

Another apology

Hey Malv. Recently, I made a couple of unnecessary double-edits on accident. Sorry if this irks you.-Xterra1 04:29, 24 November 2011 (GMT)

Source of creatures' names

Hello. I'm new here but I hope to be a good contributor :) What I'd like to know is where the names of the creatures from Keen Dreams and Keen 6 were found because Keen Dreams doesn't seem to list them all while Keen 6 doesn't even contain a help section and some of the names mentioned in Keen 6 user manual are different from the names listed here. Can you help? Levellass hasn't answered yet. Saluton 05:46, 4 February 2013 (GMT)

Hi Saluton and welcome to the wiki! Things do move a little more slowly here so you might have to give people a week or two to respond :-) As far as I'm aware all the names are correct - if you can tell me which ones are wrong and let me know where the correct name is we will certainly fix it! Most of the names came from official sources like the manuals, while one or two were supplied by Tom Hall himself. I believe there are a few which have been named by fans lacking a more official source, but it should mention this on those creature pages. -- Malvineous 08:17, 4 February 2013 (GMT)
Sorry, I was wrong, the names in Keen 6 user manual and here do match, but I couldn't find a user manual for Keen Dreams. Where should I look? In any case, it's only better for all the wiki articles to refer to sources. :) Saluton 09:22, 4 February 2013 (GMT)
The rule so far is that the creature names come from the help text for Keens 1-5+Dreams and from the manual for Keen 6. Anything different and it's mentioned in the article. If you have a look at Keen Dreams Creatures it will tell you that the names come from the help text in version 1.0 of the game. This information was removed from later versions. -- Malvineous 10:49, 4 February 2013 (GMT)
OK, I was wrong here, too :( but citations would still be useful. On another point, wouldn't it be better to combine those articles on creatures so that there's only one article per game? There can hardly be any information on most of the creatures anyway, apart from what they look like, how they move, and what they do. Most articles will forever be two- or three-paragraph stubs. Saluton 14:59, 5 February 2013 (GMT)
I guess citations could be useful - they are already there on most if not all the Dreams pages, but there is a lot of more important work needed on all the mod pages so this is a fairly low priority for us. Combining the creatures onto a single page has already been done - each episode has a summary page for the creatures. But we decided long ago it was still worth having a dedicated page for each creature as that gives us more room for additional details, like which levels the creature appears in, bugs in its behaviour, tricks for avoiding it, and so on. It also makes it easier to link to creatures - otherwise we'd have dozens of redirect pages anyway. But likewise we also decided that mods should not have individual pages for each creature, as there would be thousands of unnecessary pages then. -- Malvineous 19:45, 5 February 2013 (GMT)
I see, thanks. Why is there no page on Bobby Prince? Was anything decided on that? Saluton 06:11, 7 February 2013 (GMT)
No, there has been no decision there. If you have some information about Bobby Prince related to Commander Keen, by all means go ahead and create a page for him. But if you're looking for things to do, there are lots of mods that don't have pages created yet, and each page needs infoboxes, screenshots, level lists, etc. This is where most of the work is being done at the moment. Have a look at Episode Null for what we're aiming for on each mod's page. -- Malvineous 22:03, 8 February 2013 (GMT)
I don't think pages on the creators of Keen should only contain information related to Keen. To my mind, a proper encyclopedic article about a person should give a complete view of their biography even if it's in a Keen encyclopedia, but anyway, we'll see about that when I have enough time to actually edit articles. Thanks for this discussion :) Saluton 07:46, 11 February 2013 (GMT)
Of course you can include non Keen-related information, but since it's a Commander Keen encyclopaedia it makes sense to give a greater focus on things related to Commander Keen. Otherwise you may as well just link to the Wikipedia article instead! -- Malvineous 23:01, 15 February 2013 (GMT)
I would suggest just linking to the Wikipedia article of Bobby Prince and other creators of Keen when needed. There's no reason to repeat something that is stated better elsewhere. -- Flaose 15:48, 20 February 2013 (GMT)

Goodbye, Galaxy!

Why is there no punctuation in the title Goodbye Galaxy? Saluton 14:47, 11 February 2013 (GMT)

Very good point. I've renamed the page - thanks! -- Malvineous 23:01, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

Moving of pages and their location on alphabetical lists

I notice when a page is moved, it remains in the same place as the old page would when listed in a category. This could be confusing, is there any way to circumvent it? -Always so much to do! 09:22, 16 February 2013 (GMT)

It shouldn't - do you have any examples? Keep in mind the category pages are cached so it can take a few page views before they all get updated after a rename. Certainly by 24 hours later they should all be correct and up to date. -- Malvineous 21:27, 16 February 2013 (GMT)

Delete some pages

Category:Incompatible Patches is an invalid category, it seems that such pages should always have a small 'p' in patches due to the way the wiki works. This page is thus extra and should be deleted post haste. -Always so much to do!

The following pages can also be deleted, having no other pages linking to them and being the subject of double redirects; Moving Platform, Patch:Keens Left and Patches:Game start, results of poor syntax -Always so much to do!
Done! -- Malvineous 14:48, 20 March 2013 (GMT)
Many thanks, that clears things up a bit, I dislike superfluous pages. -Always so much to do! 19:28, 20 March 2013 (GMT)
Bleah, found yet another duplicated page, (Mind the original was very old and in need of updating.) Could you please remove Patch:Light Switch, it has stuff on it, but nothing that isn't on the original page now. (Also there's only one page that links directly to the light switch page, so it was easy to make sure there's no links to the duplicate page.)
Done. I've also made you an administrator of the wiki so you should be able to delete pages yourself in future (there's a new tab at the top of each page you will see once you log out and back in again.) -- Malvineous 00:06, 2 April 2013 (GMT)
Thanks, that should help, assuming I don;t make any more dumb mistakes like the mess you just fixed up. -Always so much to do! 09:08, 8 April 2013 (GMT)
Hahaha no worries, everyone makes mistakes :-) -- Malvineous 11:56, 8 April 2013 (GMT)

About my Cosmo Mod

Thanks for the heads-up. I didn't know there was a page at the Modding Wiki for Cosmo Mods. I'll make sure to put the mod article there next time. T-Squared (talk) 22:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

A bug

I tried to get my three mods in the Keen 1, Keen 2, and Keen 3 mods page. But I can't do it, because it won't do it. Sorry about the edits I've done. Quinton (talk) 23:52, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello Quinton. You did everything right, but those pages are not always refreshed automatically. To purge a page's cached version, add "?action=purge" to the page title in the address bar and commit, e.g. You can also read about this in the source code of the mod lists. --Grandy02 (talk) 07:59, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Mod title confusion

Hi Malv. I'm currently creating stubs for the remaining missing mods, but I'm confused about the wiki's handling of mod titles, especially those with subtitles. Sometimes the main (series) title(+episode number) is used (e.g. The Clones of Evil 1, Death to the Vorticons 3), but for others the subtitle/episode name (e.g. Vanished To Venus, Kidnapped Keen, TUIT trilogy), while in some cases the full title is given to the article (e.g. Onward: Silcar 1: Nightmare Before Teatime). Are there any rules for this? And a unique case seems to be OrbKeen1, which is given its production name rather than actual title. --Grandy02 (talk) 18:37, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure - I don't think there's a specific rule at the moment, but if you want to come up with one then by all means. I guess what you want is something unique, so MyMod1, MyMod2, MyMod3, etc. aren't very good because they are too similar. Likewise the Onward: Silcar one is probably a bit too long. I'd be happy renaming that to Nightmare Before Teatime and then applying that rule to the others. There's probably no need to have the series name in the title, as the previous/next episodes in a series are listed in the infobox on each page. What do you think? -- Malvineous (talk) 23:22, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm okay with both using the full title or only the episode's name. Sure, there would be quite a few lengthy page titles in case of the former option, so it might be better to choose the latter one. My only concern is that some mods could be more commonly known by the series name+number rather than the subtitles from what I've seen (e.g. Norp the Yorp, Shadow Keen, Marta). Do you think that would be still acceptable? --Grandy02 (talk) 11:03, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
I think so. Providing the common name(s) appear in the article itself then it will show up in a search for those names, so it shouldn't be a problem locating a mod. If it's really bad then we can always create a redirect, although personally I would try to manage without redirects first, as I'd rather not see every mod come with a dozen redirects attached as it will make it more difficult to maintain. -- Malvineous (talk) 11:49, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Sounds good. Though I think there would generally have to be one redirect for the affected pages. For example, "Brain Damage" would have "Norp the Yorp 3" so that visitors can also find the mod when typing "Norp". --Grandy02 (talk) 19:49, 25 March 2015 (UTC)
That's fine, although if it's only searching you're worried about, on the mod page putting something like "Brain Damage (also known as Norp the Yorp 3)" should be enough. -- Malvineous (talk) 00:44, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I think it would be more comfortable so that a visitor gets directly to the correct page when typing the title they are used to. So, could a rule for this be created? Also, would it affect the names of the zip files? --Grandy02 (talk) 08:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Can you give me an example? When I type "Norp the Yorp 3" into the search bar the mod is the first result, and if I type "Brain Damage" it's the second result. Wouldn't that be enough for people to find it using whatever name they prefer? Or you just prefer if it goes straight to the page if there's an exact match? I don't mind just as long as there's a good reason for doing it one way over the other. One thing I want to avoid is having a dozen redirects for each mod, with only things like capitalisation being the difference between some of them. -- Malvineous (talk) 09:07, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm only referring to going straight to the pages. I personally don't mind if I have to do one more click, just thought that some visitors wouldn't like that when entering a mod's common name a list of search results appears first. I fully understand that the number of redirects has to be kept small, never intended to add different capitalisations and stuff. If anything, I only imagined one per mod if it is relevant at all (as in case of the Norp mods). If a rule is made, would the zip files also have to be renamed? --Grandy02 (talk) 17:54, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough if there aren't huge numbers of them. Remember that redirects aren't supposed to be categorised though, they're only supposed to be used for pages that used to exist on the wiki but were deleted/merged, so that any external sites linking to the old page still work. Up to you whether you want to rename the files, but I think we should stick to one title per filename though. Most people will only see the filenames temporarily while they download mods, so there should be no need to cram too much information into the filename! -- Malvineous (talk) 22:25, 8 April 2015 (UTC)

I'm almost done with with adding pages for the missing mods. However, I have a question related to the download links in the mod galleries. In most cases, only the download for the latest version is needed there. But what about downloads of remakes, e.g. those of Yorphius II, ShadowKeen and Crash on Gobo III? Maybe even a separate box (though not a separate article) that also includes the remake author's name? If there's one mod that definitely needs two download links, it is Doomship Dilemma, because the mods by Levellass and Szemigi are basically two different works based on the same beta. --Grandy02 (talk) 07:38, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Nice work! If the mods are that different then they probably deserve their own pages, like The Grand Intellect: Doomship Dilemma (Levellass version), Yorphius II (Deluxe) or Crash on Gobo III (remake). However I think we need to come up with some criteria to make sure we don't get a different page for every revision of a mod. I think the criteria should be:
  • If the remake is by the same author as the original, then it should be considered the latest version and only that version included in the list (but the older versions of course listed on the article page.) This is to encourage mod authors to make new mods instead of endlessly tinkering with existing ones. It is fine to have screenshots of the different versions and to explain why they were released, but only one infobox can go on a page (otherwise it will break the categories and mod lists.)
  • If a mod builds on another one (by the same or a different author), then a new article for it should not be created, and the new mod should be listed as an alternate version on the original mod's page. This is to avoid having people change a couple of graphics and get their own mod listed. The way Yorphius II is written now is perfect.
  • An exception to the previous rule is allowed for substantial changes, such as a complete levelpack for an existing mod. If you are unsure whether a mod-mod counts or not, then it doesn't. It should be very obviously a whole new mod based on an existing one, and not just a few changes or a couple of new levels. This means Gridlock's Dead in the Desert Levelpack should have its article deleted, and the content moved onto Dead in the Desert where it should be listed as an alternate version by a different author.
Using this criteria, Doomship Dilemma would get split into two mods/pages, Yorphius II would have an alternate version listed (unchanged to how it is now), and Crash on Gobo III would have the more recent change listed as the latest version.
What do you think, does this seem fair? -- Malvineous (talk) 09:06, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree with the most points, but regarding Gridlock's level pack, I'm not sure. I mean, level "packs" with just one level based on the original games also have their own articles, so I think a small level pack for a mod is as worthy. But any way, what to do with level packs in general? Most pages don't use any mod/level pack-specific templates yet (though several have the level template). Should they also use the mod infobox and thus appear in the mod lists? Or a slightly altered template and separate lists? I think there should be a way to differentiate between them. --Grandy02 (talk) 21:03, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm not so keen on having an entirely different list for full mods vs level packs, but what if we modify the current mod lists so that under each mod (where it currently has a download link, the number of levels, and the mod status) we include a new item that says whether the mod includes new graphics? That way full mods would say yes here, and level packs say no, but everything could be in the same mod list. This item can pull from the existing mod infobox, so current pages wouldn't have to be updated to include the new info. Would that work? -- Malvineous (talk) 23:30, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Good idea. Okay, now the only remaining issue is the sheer number of level packs that don't have a page yet (more than 40). Of course I could do it all on my own again, but the progress would be very slow, and the outdated links would continue to be in the navigation. It would be a different case if just putting infoboxes on those pages would be enough for stubs, not sure about that. --Grandy02 (talk) 17:29, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
The page only needs an infobox to appear in the list, and ideally a screenshot, but really, as much or as little as you can manage is fine. Maybe you can come up with a simple procedure explaining what to copy/paste and recruit some help from the PCKF? -- Malvineous (talk) 10:43, 27 June 2015 (UTC)
I'll ask the PCKF members to help with screenshots and red links once I'm done with the few missing "blue links". --Grandy02 (talk) 18:50, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Sounds good! Thanks for all your effort cleaning up the mod lists, it's great to have someone willing to put the time in to do this properly! -- Malvineous (talk) 22:37, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

File name problems

I moved Commander Keen & the Morticore to The Morticore, and I have encountered a problem. The files are now broken, because the mod title has changed. I don't want to upload a duplicate of the file, so is there anything else I can do? Quinton (talk) 16:22, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

I've "moved" the files. --Grandy02 (talk) 16:30, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Translation mods

Hi, I've two questions regarding mods that act as translations of the original games, more specifically the Hungarian translations by Szemigi. First, would each one of those mods have its own page just like other skin mods? Texts and text graphics are changed. And second, how to localise the downloads? The zip files contain installers for Windows. Should the zip archives include the actual game files or the installer executables? --Grandy02 (talk) 19:15, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, they're not really "mods" in the gameplay sense so they kind of belong on the main episode pages instead. Do you think we could put them somewhere there? Maybe we need to expand each episode's page to contain a bit more info as well as things like this. As for the download, technically we can't distribute modified versions of the game so it should be the usual patch files that sit on top of the original game. You don't need an installer for this so hopefully that can be removed, especially since it won't work for anyone running a Mac, Linux, or a real DOS PC. -- Malvineous (talk) 21:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I was thinking the same, it would require an additional emulator for non-Windows users, so I'd zip the extracted files for the localised downloads. Maybe we could have a page named "Translations"? "Keen 1 Translations" and so on would have too little content each, so one page for all translations would be enough, and each episode page would have a link to it. What do you think? --Grandy02 (talk) 15:03, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
That sounds fine to me, feel free to go ahead and create it! -- Malvineous (talk) 11:27, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

The translations are essentially skin mods, too, aren't they? What about a collective page for skin mods (that could also include the translations then)? I've to agree that it's hard to draw the line, and things like "play in CGA" or "play as Vorticon (Keen's sprites simply replaced by Vorticon's)" probably don't need their own pages. But I wouldn't like a complete exclusion of them, either. Not to mention that the wiki provides the downloads for all of them since more than two years. --Grandy02 (talk) 10:41, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm still not so keen on listing skin mods. To me they are not much different to changing the sounds or music and leaving the game otherwise unchanged. It's like an incomplete mod, and incomplete mods should not be listed here unless they are abandoned and enough progress has been made that playing them is significantly different to the original game. I guess it hinges on whether the KeenWiki is supposed to be a database of every single mod, no matter how insignificant, or whether it should be an index of the better more complete mods. I am of the opinion that you need to change more than one or two things in order for the mod to feature here. If a skin mod is good enough, then someone over at the PCKF will surely use it in a full mod and then there's no problem listing it here. For the completists, who want every single little change preserved, maybe other sites like would be a better match? Translations are a special case as they make the original games accessible to a wider audience - in my opinion they aren't really mods, as the content is the same as the original game, just in another language. -- Malvineous (talk) 03:13, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I've created a list with all the skin mods + translations. Do you think the SGA mods would count as "translations", even though the language remains English? Regarding the skin mods, a few words have been exchanged in the PCKF topic. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they had pages. Technically, the abandoned mods without changed levels are a similar case. But I wouldn't create pages for the "Military" mods, for example, as only some sprites have been changed and nothing else, but in those cases I'd keep download links somewhere due to their "historical" value (made during the early years of Keen modding). Not sure about Cybernetic Dreams, though, as quite a few graphics have been edited, while there is nothing else like patching or text edits. --Grandy02 (talk) 21:24, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Translation mods definitely deserve a place, but I think they should be separate to mods and listed close to the official games, since the idea is that they are the same as the official games but open them up to a wider audience. An SGA translation mod is interesting, but if it's changing the English parts to SGA then it's more of a curiosity than something I think anyone would choose to play.
For skin mods, I think we need something similar to Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Skin mods may be worth listing if they are historically significant (such as one of the first ever mods) but beyond that I personally feel that unless there are new levels, the mod doesn't add anything new to the original games. Playing the original games is fun - but playing them with a different sprite here or there is boring - you aren't going to make any new discoveries. I see skin mods as being lazy, and when people complain about having to make even just one new level, that just reinforces the idea that they are being lazy and want a mod page with the least amount of effort possible.
How about asking the people over at Keen:Modding what they think? If you can get the modders themselves to cast a vote about whether we should include skin mods or not, then I am willing to go with their decision. -- Malvineous (talk) 22:30, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Galaxy Mods - adding additional topic

Hey Malvineous, quick question to that Galaxy Mod page: What about adding a new topic like Notable Demos. This section would comprise round about 12 alpha-mods and it might give a bit more clarity. I can take care of it, as soon as you give me your "OK" for doing so. -- Nisaba (talk) 21:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure exactly what you are proposing, but you are welcome to make a start and then get some opinions about whether people like what you're doing or not. It's a community wiki so it's not up to me :-) However do bear in mind that per the note at the top of Galaxy Mods, that page will be deleted once all the mods are moved off it. If you're going to start classifying mods as notable though, make sure the criteria you are using are very clear, otherwise everyone will want to add their own mods to the list! -- Malvineous (talk) 09:41, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

What happened to the voting system?

I noticed that the voting system that is found inside the CK mod info boxes appears to be disabled. Is this because of some nasty bug happened or was this done on purpose? Quinton (talk) 05:45, 14 May 2016 (UTC)