Talk:Atroxian Realm

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Why do we consider AR as a Keen 4 mod?

Basically what the subject says. I know it started as a Keen 4 mod, but since it is now a source code mod, it doesn't make sense to call it Keen 4 mod anymore. I think it should be considered as a fangame, since it doesn't seem to patch the executable file and there is so much new stuff. NetKeen used some of the Keen:Galaxy code and is considered as a fangame in this wiki, so I don't see why can't we consider Atroxian Realm as a fangame too. If not, then I think calling it a Keen Dreams mod would make sense, since I think it used the Keen Dreams source code (although quite a lot is changed) and the files appear to use a ".CKD" file format. Quinton (talk) 02:54, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

This question has already been discussed on the forums. It's indeed a quite difficult question, but in conclusion this mod should be kept as a Keen 4 mod. Head over to the pckf for some closer inspections: Discussion on the pckf / alternative link.
Here are two developer statements concerning that topic. Gridlock stated on a similar question:
"[...] Because AR was a Keen 4 mod for the vast majority of its development, I've never really stopped thinking of it as a mod of that game, especially since so much of its design was informed by the affordances of Keen 4. And, really, though the engine changed, AR still uses plenty of resources that were modded from Keen 4.
But you are right, the end product itself isn't really a mod of Keen 4 at all. I'm only biased towards calling it that because that's how it was for nearly 5 years. It's really more of a new engine that cobbles together pieces from various sources, including K4. But then, what would you call it if not a mod?"
(Gridlock, Sep 26, 2016)

NY00123 replied as follows:
"[...] I guess it is still a Keen 4 mod in the sense that this is how it originally started, various creatures are based on Keen 4 specific creatures, etc.
On the other hand, I'm not entirely sure how much of the Keen Dreams part of the codebase (which isn't also found in Keen 4-6) was really left.
Let's remind that Atroxian Realm (as a source mod) is based, among other things, on the so-called "Keen Dreams - Unofficial Tech Demo". While about half of the tech demo's codebase is more-or-less grabbed off the Keen Dreams sources, the other half, the ID Engine, is taken off the Catacomb 3-D sources. Keen Dreams also has its revision of the ID Engine, it's just a few months earlier; And Cat3D's revision is much closer to Keen 4-6's.
A lot of Keen 4-6 was still missing, so lemm had to take advantage of some reverse-engineering work, including earlier Keen 5 efforts from the NetKeen and Omnispeak projects. A lot of the Keen Dreams specific parts were obviously replaced in the way."
(NY00123, Sep 28, 2016)
Nisaba (talk) 11:24, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
I checked out that topic. I still think it doesn't really make sense to call it a Keen 4 mod, but if that's what the majority of people want to refer it as, then so be it. Though, if that's going to be so, then I have a couple questions. Wouldn't NetKeen be considered as a Keen 5 mod, or a Galaxy mod, instead as a fangame? Also, as Gridlock said in that topic, what would a mod that uses Atroxian Realm's engine from start to finish be called? Calling that a Keen 4 mod would just seem silly. These might be difficult to figure out. Quinton (talk) 03:46, 6 March 2017 (UTC)